tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2698006743552625350.post1461852013326781943..comments2024-03-29T05:56:09.111-04:00Comments on THE VALLEY OF WORDS: A TALE OF TWO (AND MORE) ‘CHURCHES’Dale Luis Menezeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06707366650904496827noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2698006743552625350.post-51359504843636717592014-12-24T12:10:08.596-05:002014-12-24T12:10:08.596-05:00Sharing (and archiving) Sergio Mascarenhas' co...Sharing (and archiving) Sergio Mascarenhas' comments on FB:<br /><br />Dale, conversions in the Christian and Islamic traditions are an act of will, first and foremost. As an act of will, it may be qualified (hence fake conversion is always a possibility). Still, that act of will is demanded as a sign of a deeper commitment, both personal and social. The fruition of that commitment is Christianisation or Islamisation. It crafts a community, or a sub community of the larger community of the believers.<br /><br />Now, the act of conversion is the personal act that, if and when it becomes a deep commitment, crafts the new community, the new tradition (in the original sense of the word). If this happens, a new community, a new tradition comes into being. For instance, a community of Christians. But - and this is the crux of the matter - only the founders of the community converted: their descendents didn't convert, they are part of the (new) tradition.<br /><br />The lie about the Christian and Islamic communities in India is that they are communities of converted. They are not. The only converts were the first members of these communities. Those that were born into it never converted, they became Chrisitians of Muslims by tradition, not by conversion.<br /><br />The other lie is that Hindus are inherently Hindus. They are not. They are, like Christians or Muslims, the receivers and transmiters of a tradition. They are as free to give it up as most Europeans were free to give up Christianity as they did in the course of the last two centuries.<br /><br />The lie that the way to become a Christian or a Muslim requires conversion, so that today's Christians or Muslims are converts (a lie that is implicit in a good deal of anti Christian and anti Islamic discourses in India) is to a great extent necessary for the rethoric or the "come back to the Hindu fold".<br /><br />By dropping the conversion word I focus things where they must be focuzed: On the historical depth of the different Indian religious and social traditions; on the responsability of the present generation for what is done with those traditions and in the name of those traditions; on the level ground among those traditions.Dale Luis Menezeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06707366650904496827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2698006743552625350.post-6653939920126146762014-12-24T12:07:52.993-05:002014-12-24T12:07:52.993-05:00Sharing (and archiving) Sergio Mascarenhas' co...Sharing (and archiving) Sergio Mascarenhas' comments on FB:<br /><br />Something about Goa that usually goes under the radar is that Christianisation's influence cannot be reduced to a binary antinomy: An ideal of a-castist equality vs. a reality of castist inequality. This reading underscores Miki Naik's argument that Christianisation or Islamisation basically changes nothing since the caste system remains in place.<br /><br />Yes, Christianisation kept castes, but it didn't keep the same castes. The caste system changed. It became simpler, it became more porous. The caste system of the Christians of Goa is a mix of the pre-Christianisation caste system and the Early Modern age European class system.<br /><br />This had two major impacts, two major changes to the Indian caste system: The untouchables got out of the picture; the brahmins disapeared as a religious caste (they filled the nobility gap instead).<br /><br />Another major impact is that the association of the Goan Christian caste system with the Western class system makes it more permeable to the vicissitudes of this Western class system. This means that the Christian caste system gets under check by both the equalitarianism inherent in the Christian faith, and the non-regligious, political equalitarianism prevalent in the Western world. I suppose I don't need to point to the long list of Goan intellectuals from the 19th and early 20th centuries that demonstrate this.<br /><br />(I kept Islamisation outside of the picture because I don't know enough about it to refer to it, but I suppose that part of the above argument can be done for it as well. And I avoided the word 'conversion(s)' for obvious reasons.)Dale Luis Menezeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06707366650904496827noreply@blogger.com